lundi 31 octobre 2011

Re: [sap-career] SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Posted by akhilesh (SAP FICO CONSULTANT)
on Oct 31 at 11:52 PM
I think this post has really become so long to discuss. It is already
been Discussed a lot by the Industry experts. I am suggesting not to pull
the thread so long. Its a simple two line discussion if you are not able to
get a job of configurator please go to do some end user job. In the mean
time might be possible that even this opportunity leave your doorstep. Then
you will become frustrated. Get entry to SAP industry. And look I am
suggesting you not to teach as if you by yourself is not able to get a job in
SAP how come you be able to teach someone else. So please dont put somebody
else career in drain.

Thanks
Akhilesh

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Debashish Pal
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:06 PM
Subject: SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Hi Mr. Vidya Dhar

You are saying certification is an added advantage. Accepted ...but not
mandatory or the basis for getting a job. As far as my background goes I
had an experience in HR generalist profile for 2 years. Currently I am not
working as my last company closed down. As you already mentioned, I learned
form online directly from a freelance trainer based at Hyderabad. I did
manage to get some interview calls from some major IT companies, who are
into SAP consulting (like IBM, Accenture, HCL etc). All they cared about
the amount of prior experience in SAP implementation (or support) I had, as
they required a minimum 2 years prior experience in SAP consulting. They
didn't even bother to ask whether I had passed the SAP certification or
not. As you can easily guess, I got rejected in those interviews due to
lack of prior experience. I gave references of my friends who had passed
their certifications, but still looking for a breakthrough. Later I came to
know that all of my friends, despite having passed their certifications met
the same fate as me due to lack prior experience in SAP consulting,
although they had a good domain experience in HR of 4-5 yrs. When one of my
friends got into an argument with the HR person of one of those companies
by emphasizing on his certification issue, the HR guy candidly said to him
that that they give a damn to the SAP certification, if that is not
supported by a minimum 2 years experience and abruptly hanged up the phone.


As I already mentioned my earlier post I have surveyed many of my friends
and acquaintances in my network, who have done SAP certifications both in
HR as well as in other domains.There are total of 40 such people whom I
surveyed. Almost 85% of them conveyed that the certification didn't help
them to get a job as a SAP consultant. Only those people (6 people out of
40 which comes to 15%), who already had prior 2 to 3 experience in SAP
consulting, did the certification add value to their professional careers
(ie the certification really proved to be an added advantage for only those
6 people out 40, in terms of some overseas assignments and promotions) .

The vast majority of them (34 people out of 40, which comes to 85%) , who
don't have a prior SAP consulting experience, the certification didn't
prove of any significant value, let alone be an advantage. Despite passing
the certification test, these 34 people are either working as SAP end
users or they have returned to their respective domain jobs or working as
trainers in those small time institutes to make out a living. This is case
of those people who had paid approx INR 4 lakhs, for the ILT (some went for
the OLT and paid approx INR 2 lakhs) in those SAP authorized training
institutes like NIIT or Siemens. As far as I am concerned, I don't have any
prior experience in SAP Consulting. I only have 2 years domain experience
in HR. Its not amount of money but the value from money that matters. How
can be assured of a job in SAP consulting even if I spend INR 2 lakhs for
my SAP certification (assuming that I go for the OLT option) ???? And if at
all I land up in a job as SAP end user despite passing the SAP
certification, why should I spend INR 2 lakhs in the first place??? Please
advise.

Also throw some light on what are chances of moving from end user to
implementation (or support). If I join as an end-user, perform well and
build a good rapport with my seniors, is there any chances that I will be
able to migrate to SAP implantation at later point of time. How much time
does it take approximately.???.

Please advise on these issues so that I am able to take a final decision.

Also thanking you from the bottom of my heart for all your suggestions and
advice till now, as I find your posts most useful as compared to other
posts.

Regards---
Debashish

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Re: [sap-career] SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Posted by Debashish_leo
on Oct 31 at 3:06 PM
Hi Mr. Vidya Dhar

You are saying certification is an added advantage. Accepted ...but not
mandatory or the basis for getting a job. As far as my background goes I
had an experience in HR generalist profile for 2 years. Currently I am not
working as my last company closed down. As you already mentioned, I learned
form online directly from a freelance trainer based at Hyderabad. I did
manage to get some interview calls from some major IT companies, who are
into SAP consulting (like IBM, Accenture, HCL etc). All they cared about
the amount of prior experience in SAP implementation (or support) I had, as
they required a minimum 2 years prior experience in SAP consulting. They
didn't even bother to ask whether I had passed the SAP certification or
not. As you can easily guess, I got rejected in those interviews due to
lack of prior experience. I gave references of my friends who had passed
their certifications, but still looking for a breakthrough. Later I came to
know that all of my friends, despite having passed their certifications met
the same fate as me due to lack prior experience in SAP consulting,
although they had a good domain experience in HR of 4-5 yrs. When one of my
friends got into an argument with the HR person of one of those companies
by emphasizing on his certification issue, the HR guy candidly said to him
that that they give a damn to the SAP certification, if that is not
supported by a minimum 2 years experience and abruptly hanged up the phone.


As I already mentioned my earlier post I have surveyed many of my friends
and acquaintances in my network, who have done SAP certifications both in
HR as well as in other domains.There are total of 40 such people whom I
surveyed. Almost 85% of them conveyed that the certification didn't help
them to get a job as a SAP consultant. Only those people (6 people out of
40 which comes to 15%), who already had prior 2 to 3 experience in SAP
consulting, did the certification add value to their professional careers
(ie the certification really proved to be an added advantage for only those
6 people out 40, in terms of some overseas assignments and promotions) .

The vast majority of them (34 people out of 40, which comes to 85%) , who
don't have a prior SAP consulting experience, the certification didn't
prove of any significant value, let alone be an advantage. Despite passing
the certification test, these 34 people are either working as SAP end
users or they have returned to their respective domain jobs or working as
trainers in those small time institutes to make out a living. This is case
of those people who had paid approx INR 4 lakhs, for the ILT (some went for
the OLT and paid approx INR 2 lakhs) in those SAP authorized training
institutes like NIIT or Siemens. As far as I am concerned, I don't have any
prior experience in SAP Consulting. I only have 2 years domain experience
in HR. Its not amount of money but the value from money that matters. How
can be assured of a job in SAP consulting even if I spend INR 2 lakhs for
my SAP certification (assuming that I go for the OLT option) ???? And if at
all I land up in a job as SAP end user despite passing the SAP
certification, why should I spend INR 2 lakhs in the first place??? Please
advise.

Also throw some light on what are chances of moving from end user to
implementation (or support). If I join as an end-user, perform well and
build a good rapport with my seniors, is there any chances that I will be
able to migrate to SAP implantation at later point of time. How much time
does it take approximately.???.

Please advise on these issues so that I am able to take a final decision.

Also thanking you from the bottom of my heart for all your suggestions and
advice till now, as I find your posts most useful as compared to other
posts.

Regards---
Debashish

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Vidhya Dhar
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 5:40 AM
Subject: SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Hi

It is absolutely okay to take up teaching as an interim profession until you get a real time work or (support / implementation) assignment. In fact, an immediate teaching profession until such time helps you stay in touch with the subject and fetch you some earning as well. But please do remember that such teaching experience may not be construed as real time experience for any other SAP job or support / implementation assignment. Since you do not seem to have a passion for teaching.... it is better to find an alternative, sooner the better.

However, as per Indian standards.... as I said earlier...... Certification is an added advantage ( sometimes even considered as mandatory by some people ). In fact, you may be competing in the SAP market with candidates having HR domain experience and an SAP certificate as well. If you are serious about getting a job, then you need to be at par with them.

In the SAP market.... as I told you before.. no body starts off as a consultant ( let us be realistic ). Since you would be considered as a fresher ( from a local institute and more over you are not certified.....am sorry..... am not meaning to offend you by any standards ) without any real time experience even as an end user ( By the way, I do not know if you have any work related domain experience in HR arena....though may not be in SAP). Therefore, if somebody tells you that you can start your career as a consultant......please think twice ....it is either that a. the person is trying to sound encouraging out of his affection for you and does not want to see you feel offended or b. the person is naive and you need to validate his / her statements.

Unless you are cocksure that you have

1. a valid certification
2. thorough knowledge of all related business processes ( usually gained through adequate related work experience , may be even as an end user )

you may be doing a wild goose chase looking for assignments and wasting time in the process..... I am not discouraging you.....only suggesting you that taking up any assignment ( even end user related) may not be a bad idea since it is something to start with ( most people start their career so and grow up in course of time).

Wishing you success in your endeavor.

Regards

VidhyaDhar

__.____._
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Re: [sap-career] Is SAP CRM End User Experience enough to Pursue SAP CRM Certification?

Posted by R. N. Wilhite (Senior Project Manager)
on Oct 31 at 11:37 AM
Just remember, you would be coming in as side position that is part of an
implementation team. You must advertise yourself as that. Then there is
the "BUT"! But, your goal is to become a configurer. So you have to make
as a condition of your employment that you will be allowed to help out the
configuration team.

Neal

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Roy Brookes
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 10:47 AM
Subject: Is SAP CRM End User Experience enough to Pursue SAP CRM Certification?

Let me jump in here and say your experience is not typical end-user experience.
" migration of data from legacy systems to the sap systems and also help with support after go live and trouble shooting basic crm tickets as well and also training,etc."
That is all useful experience you can use on any implementation and you will see jobs advertised for people with data migration skills or support experience, and training is a whole field of its own.
Put all of that in your profile and your CV and prepare well for interviews and you could get a foot in the door of the consulting world. You would need to market yourself well but it is possible.
Certification on top could certainly help, and I could see you making the breakthrough with a little application and intelligent CV writing and marketing. Go for it!

Regards,

Roy

Mark as helpful.

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Re: [sap-career] Is SAP CRM End User Experience enough to Pursue SAP CRM Certification?

Posted by Roy B (SAP Financials Expert)
on Oct 31 at 10:46 AM
Let me jump in here and say your experience is not typical end-user experience.
" migration of data from legacy systems to the sap systems and also help with support after go live and trouble shooting basic crm tickets as well and also training,etc."
That is all useful experience you can use on any implementation and you will see jobs advertised for people with data migration skills or support experience, and training is a whole field of its own.
Put all of that in your profile and your CV and prepare well for interviews and you could get a foot in the door of the consulting world. You would need to market yourself well but it is possible.
Certification on top could certainly help, and I could see you making the breakthrough with a little application and intelligent CV writing and marketing. Go for it!

Regards,

Roy

Mark as helpful.

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Shahalam Khan
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 10:28 AM
Subject: Is SAP CRM End User Experience enough to Pursue SAP CRM Certification?

Hi All,

I would like to know if SAP End User experience is enough reason for me to pursue a SAP CRM functional certification course via siemens. I have about 2.2 years of SAP End user experience during which I also helped with migration of data from legacy systems to the sap systems and also help with support after go live and trouble shooting basic crm tickets as well and also training,etc.

I have also done sap courses in SD, FI and CRM Functional from small time institutes, which was a waste of time, money and false promises, but I have gained knowledge in the above mentioned modules on my own and with a little help from the trainers and course content.

I have enrolled myself with Siemens for a batch next month for SAP CRM Functional certification and I am quite uncertain as to what the future holds after the certification as it is a big investment, as i have heard and done my research online and Certified freshers don't have it easy for them do understand my dilemma.

Please advice!

__.____._
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[sap-career] Is SAP CRM End User Experience enough to Pursue SAP CRM Certification?

Posted by shahalamkhan
on Oct 31 at 10:27 AM
Hi All,

I would like to know if SAP End User experience is enough reason for me to pursue a SAP CRM functional certification course via siemens. I have about 2.2 years of SAP End user experience during which I also helped with migration of data from legacy systems to the sap systems and also help with support after go live and trouble shooting basic crm tickets as well and also training,etc.

I have also done sap courses in SD, FI and CRM Functional from small time institutes, which was a waste of time, money and false promises, but I have gained knowledge in the above mentioned modules on my own and with a little help from the trainers and course content.

I have enrolled myself with Siemens for a batch next month for SAP CRM Functional certification and I am quite uncertain as to what the future holds after the certification as it is a big investment, as i have heard and done my research online and Certified freshers don't have it easy for them do understand my dilemma.

Please advice!
__.____._
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Re: [sap-career] SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Posted by R. N. Wilhite (Senior Project Manager)
on Oct 31 at 10:09 AM
1) Your implication is that they cheat people. By working for them then
you are cheating people. To consider it then means that you see cheating
people as a reasonable option.

2) End User work is only a prerequisite for being able to design
reasonable configuration solutions. It will not get you a configuration
job. In those several years, with no configuration work, you will
completely loose any useful knowledge of the configuration that you
learned. With the certification, you would at least have proof that at one
time you knew how to do it. Without it, your training means nothing what
so ever!

3) See 2. They are inexorably linked.

Neal

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Debashish Pal
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:01 AM
Subject: SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Hi Neal,

I have gone through your post, found it quite useful. But before I draw any
conclusion, please clarify some of my queries:

*Query # 1*
You asked me why I mentioned the training profile as option as I already
knew I my leg as going to get cut. This was because that I wanted to know
if it would add up to my overall experience in SAP consulting (even if I
would start from a small training institute, which dupes students). I
neither have much passion for teaching nor I have a long term goal to
become a SAP trainer. I just wanted to use my training experience as stop
gap arrangement and a starting point (first step) to move towards to my
ultimate goal of becoming a SAP HR consultant. Please advise if this is a
proper approach or not.

*Query# 2*
You are asking me to go for a SAP certification. I have surveyed many of my
friends and acquaintances, who have done SAP certifications both in HR as
well as in other domains. Almost 85% of them conveyed that the
certification didn't help them to get a job as a SAP consultant. Only those
people (15% approx), who already had prior 2 to 3 experience in SAP
consulting, did the certification add value to their professional
careers.The vast majority of them (85% approx) , who don't have a prior
SAP consulting experience, despite passing the certification test, are
either working as SAP end users or they have returned to their respective
domain jobs or working as trainers in those small time institutes to make
out a living. This is case of those people who had paid approx INR 4
lakhs, for the ILT (some went for the OLT and paid approx INR 2 lakhs) in
those SAP authorized training institutes like NIIT or Siemens. As far as I
am concerned, I don't have any prior experience in SAP Consulting. I only
have 2 years domain experience in HR. Its not amount of money but the value
from money that matters. How can be assured of a job in SAP consulting even
if I spend INR 2 lakhs for my SAP certification (assuming that I go for the
OLT option) ???? And if at all I land up in a job as SAP end user despite
passing the SAP certification, why should I spend INR 2 lakhs in the first
place??? Please advise.

*Query# 3*
You have mentioned SAP end user experience does not configure in the
overall IT experience. Accepted ...But have been advised by many people to
start off as a SAP end user, build good rapport with my seniors supported
by my satisfactory job performance, and in due course of time, migrate to
SAP consulting (implementation or support) with-in 1 or 2 years. Then after
completing 2 years in SAP Consulting, go for the SAP certification. I don't
know haw far this is practical. Please throw some light on this issue.

Waiting to hear from you.

Thanks ----
Debashish

__.____._
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RE:[sap-career] SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Posted by sadhdilip (Engagement Director)
on Oct 31 at 12:07 PM
hello,
teaching always helps a lot so please find opportunity.

thanks,

Dilip Sadh

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Debashish Pal
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:55 AM
Subject: SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Hi Everyone,

I have just completed my training in SAP-HR module. I have training
directly on-line from a freelance trainer based at Hyderabad. Through
regular practice and research, I have become well versed in all important
concepts in SAP-HR as far as a fresher is concerned. I am also facing severe
challenges in getting a job.

I got some calls to join as a trainer in small time institutes in Delhi
/NCR, but later found out that such small time institutes not only dupe
students with huge amounts of money by giving false promises of jobs but
also do not pay their trainers in time. Sometimes payouts to trainers gets
delayed for several months. These institutes are not the authorized training
partners of SAP and the software they use is not the original SAP software.
There are several cases pending against these institutes in the consumer
courts in India filed by those students who had been duped by these small
time institutes. Many of these small institutes, due to fear of being
legally persecuted either change their names or close down altogether,
without informing either the students or the trainers in advance.

I have also received a job offer to work as an end-user in SAP payroll for a company in Ahamedabad.

As regards to the Ahmedabad job, the company HR executive is saying that I will not be paid any salary for the initial three months. After three months, based on my performance, I will be paid 7-8K stipend from the fourth month on-wards. After I get one year old in the company, I will be paid as per the industry standards. It is not that money is an issue, neither is relocation from one city to another. The main issue is that what will be the growth opportunities if I join as an end-user in a city like Ahmedabad. I can ever get opportunities in SAP implementation or maintenance in the future if I start from a small or medium sized company in a small city.

Please advise if I should go for the job as a trainer in any of these institutes or as an end user in the Ahmedabad company.

Looking forward to valuable suggestions in this regard.

Thanks,
Debashish

__.____._
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Re: [sap-career] SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Posted by VidhyaDhar (User-friendly SAP FI Consultant)
on Oct 31 at 5:39 AM
Hi

Is Debashish trying to find himself an HR related career or Basis related
Career?

Are you sure that the post does not meander from its course?

Regards

VidhyaDhar

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Shahbaz Ahmed
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 5:06 AM
Subject: SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Hi, Debashish

I would like to give you a simple advice. Certification always has an added advantage but let me remind you one thing, though for SAP certification you need a relevant experience of min 2years. And it is also true that certification cannot guarantee you a job. It's your knowledge and hard work towards the subject which will help you to get through any interview.

My advice to you is that do not go for certification now, get a job as a SAP BASIS consultant, gain experience a minimum of 3 years, then go for certification (if you required) because after an experience of 3 years you dont need any certification to prove yourself because your experience will be recognized.

Bye.

__.____._
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RE:[sap-career] SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Posted by VidhyaDhar (User-friendly SAP FI Consultant)
on Oct 31 at 5:39 AM
Hi

It is absolutely okay to take up teaching as an interim profession until you get a real time work or (support / implementation) assignment. In fact, an immediate teaching profession until such time helps you stay in touch with the subject and fetch you some earning as well. But please do remember that such teaching experience may not be construed as real time experience for any other SAP job or support / implementation assignment. Since you do not seem to have a passion for teaching.... it is better to find an alternative, sooner the better.

However, as per Indian standards.... as I said earlier...... Certification is an added advantage ( sometimes even considered as mandatory by some people ). In fact, you may be competing in the SAP market with candidates having HR domain experience and an SAP certificate as well. If you are serious about getting a job, then you need to be at par with them.

In the SAP market.... as I told you before.. no body starts off as a consultant ( let us be realistic ). Since you would be considered as a fresher ( from a local institute and more over you are not certified.....am sorry..... am not meaning to offend you by any standards ) without any real time experience even as an end user ( By the way, I do not know if you have any work related domain experience in HR arena....though may not be in SAP). Therefore, if somebody tells you that you can start your career as a consultant......please think twice ....it is either that a. the person is trying to sound encouraging out of his affection for you and does not want to see you feel offended or b. the person is naive and you need to validate his / her statements.

Unless you are cocksure that you have

1. a valid certification
2. thorough knowledge of all related business processes ( usually gained through adequate related work experience , may be even as an end user )

you may be doing a wild goose chase looking for assignments and wasting time in the process..... I am not discouraging you.....only suggesting you that taking up any assignment ( even end user related) may not be a bad idea since it is something to start with ( most people start their career so and grow up in course of time).

Wishing you success in your endeavor.

Regards

VidhyaDhar

---------------Original Message---------------
From: Debashish Pal
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:55 AM
Subject: SAP Trainer or SAP End User Job

Hi Everyone,

I have just completed my training in SAP-HR module. I have training
directly on-line from a freelance trainer based at Hyderabad. Through
regular practice and research, I have become well versed in all important
concepts in SAP-HR as far as a fresher is concerned. I am also facing severe
challenges in getting a job.

I got some calls to join as a trainer in small time institutes in Delhi
/NCR, but later found out that such small time institutes not only dupe
students with huge amounts of money by giving false promises of jobs but
also do not pay their trainers in time. Sometimes payouts to trainers gets
delayed for several months. These institutes are not the authorized training
partners of SAP and the software they use is not the original SAP software.
There are several cases pending against these institutes in the consumer
courts in India filed by those students who had been duped by these small
time institutes. Many of these small institutes, due to fear of being
legally persecuted either change their names or close down altogether,
without informing either the students or the trainers in advance.

I have also received a job offer to work as an end-user in SAP payroll for a company in Ahamedabad.

As regards to the Ahmedabad job, the company HR executive is saying that I will not be paid any salary for the initial three months. After three months, based on my performance, I will be paid 7-8K stipend from the fourth month on-wards. After I get one year old in the company, I will be paid as per the industry standards. It is not that money is an issue, neither is relocation from one city to another. The main issue is that what will be the growth opportunities if I join as an end-user in a city like Ahmedabad. I can ever get opportunities in SAP implementation or maintenance in the future if I start from a small or medium sized company in a small city.

Please advise if I should go for the job as a trainer in any of these institutes or as an end user in the Ahmedabad company.

Looking forward to valuable suggestions in this regard.

Thanks,
Debashish

__.____._
Copyright © 2011 Toolbox.com and message author.

Toolbox.com 4343 N. Scottsdale Road Suite 280, Scottsdale, AZ 85251
Mark as helpful
View this online
  
VidhyaDhar
SAP Career Helper

Posted helpful replies on 5 threads in a group to earn a Bronze Achievement
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_.____.__